[FusionComm] Truly disappointing

[Danny Baumann]

Hi,

> Two weeks passed - but what do we have? I don't know why it again turns
> out to be like this, but I can't get rid of the impression that we are
> missing any kind of goals and direction and our plans always get
> forgotten after a week or two. Whenever I start trusting you and the
> things you say, I get beaten in the face ... Why? Let me sum up some
> points ...

Rico, while at least I really appreciate your input, I really thought we
left the phase of fingerpointing behind :-/

> Those people who cried for a combined community still prefer hanging out
> on oc.o and still aim at having their own community where they can be
> the kings - even though we finally agreed with nearly 100% of their
> wishes and requests. 

It may be a matter of personal POV, but IMO it was a big step towards
you and Mike to use forum.compiz.org in the future. Please don't forget
that and take it as self-evident. Also there is no need for personal
attacks like "...they can be the kings" - I thought we agreed on that,
too ;-)

> Nobody of the so called "beryl devs", except Danny,
> ever came to compiz.org for announcing new ideas or helping users - if
> they come at all, it is for bitching, nitpicking or correcting people.

If you look careful, you will notice most of the devs don't hang out on
oc.o, either - most of them (including me!) don't have the time to
answer a large number of postings. This may be sad, but it's a fact.

> The development and "organization" (irony) are still preferably
> discussed on irc instead of being discussed here - even though everybody
> always agrees that it is better to NOT discuss organizational things on
> irc. Is this our way of working? Saying "yes - let's make it better" but
> still continue with our old habits??

Let me say it that way: Rome wasn't built in one day, too ;-)
Speaking for myself, I can say that I try to bring up important stuff on
the ML, but sometimes I still have the bad habit to ask around in IRC.
It's the same as with your somewhat bad habit to do personal attacks - I
mean, we all are humans ;-)

> Users come to the compiz forums and tell me that they tried compiz and
> beryl but nothing worked for them, so now they installed "fusion" and
> want help with it - likely because of being misinformed by "other
> sources". 

The question is whom these "other sources" are. I can assure you it's
nobody of the developer/admin people. Most likely the total separation
is made by people who just didn't understand the difference between
"Compiz" and "Compiz Fusion".

> Seriously, this mess has created such an incredible amount of
> confusion that especially the community has to be informed about what is
> going on. And before that, we should create some roadmap or targets to
> show them (hint, hint).

ACK. I must admit that I'm not very good at management stuff, and I
believe that most other developers feel the same. So our basic problem
is that we have no person who is both involved in the technical stuff
_and_ is respected by everyone else _and_ is able to write roadmap
documents, is able to outline (that's a difference to have) a clear
vision and so on - in short: We are missing a clear leader.
What are your (read: Rico's) thoughts on that, and how do you think can
we solve that problem.
I'm not 100% sure if we even _need_ roadmap and such - IMO we urgently
need an up-2-date Wiki first that clarifies the most confusing items.

> Even though I hate giving up, I am very close to give up on all this and
> give you the peace to finally do everything you want (that's all you
> want, isn't it?). 
> We all have seen how "well" things work out when there
> are only yes-sayers around ... maybe I'll just switch to kde4 and try to
> forget my beloved compiz.

Nah, please leave out the frustration - this doesn't help all of us. In
the last weeks, there was no flaming, no insults, just constructive talk
- I consider that a real improvement.

> I wouldn't be surprised if Mike has already left us for excatly the same
> reasons..

If he did, I can't understand it because Mike never tried to outline a
roadmap and vision, too. To me this would look somewhat ... weak.

> Let me ask you one question: what do you all expect to happen once we
> have a combined website for the combined project? I'd (still) really
> like to hear your answers on this ... We still have no goals, roadmap,
> merge-agreement or "peace-contract". Well, as long as we have ten
> different packages and a website the rest will come by itself, right?
> Sure.

I thought we had a merge agreement, and I also thought we agreed on
almost everything somewhat important. Do we really have to write
everything down? 
I'm also pretty sure that if we have a combined community and a good
piece of software, the need for a written roadmap and stuff like that is
secondary. We shouldn't forget it, but it's not our largest problem.

> btw: I still work on the new layout, but if it means that the
> compiz-forums have nearly no support whenever I am not around, it shows
> me how interested everyone is in a "combined community" and immediately
> puts my motivation back to zero ..

Exactly that's the point why we NEED this layout as soon as possible so
we can merge all important topics from both currently existing forums.
The forum traffic in the combined forums will soon be more than the
Compiz forums ever had, I'm pretty sure about that.

BTW: Any news on the layout and on the vB progress? ;-)

Regards,

Danny