[FusionAdmin] Admin list usage (was: The New Layout -- Mockup)

[Kristian Lyngstøl]

On 7/25/07, Will Farrington <wcfarrington at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-07-25 at 19:55 +0200, Kristian Lyngstøl wrote:
> > On 7/24/07, Will Farrington <wcfarrington at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2007-07-24 at 00:47 +0200, Kristian Lyngstøl wrote:
> > > > On 7/24/07, Will Farrington <wcfarrington at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > Simply put, within hours we'd have had a Digg posting on the front page
> > > > > and 328793754 rabid forum-goers all trying desperately to have their own
> > > > > individual little request put into the theme... and as a result things
> > > > > would take longer and the final product would be of lesser quality.
> > > >
> > > > People keep throwing this argument right and left. That we get
> > > > attention shouldn't be a reason to choose a closed development cycle.
> > > > And I also think you overestimate the importance of this. If digg
> > > > people really want to read all about it, then why shouldn't they be
> > > > allowed to?
> > >
> > > Because it's begging people to judge an unfinished product as if it were
> > > a finished one. After all, it's unfair to both the person designing the
> > > layout as well as the project which is represented by the layout when
> > > people begin to assume and critique it as if it's an entirely final
> > > product - which it isn't.
> >
> > Since I see we aren't going to agree any time soon, I'll cut it short.
> > Much of this discussion is based on whether or not discussions such as
> > the one concerning the theme of the website would generate too much
> > noise to be practical, if posted on a public list. It is my opinion
> > that it wouldn't, but I can also understand your concern.
> >
> > So instead of arguing over whether using the web list will work or
> > not, can I ask you to TRY it? If it turns out to be the problem that
> > you predict, we'll have to think of something. I can think of a few
> > things right away, but at least it shouldn't be on the admin list, so
> > we'd have to create another closed list at the very least(...).
> >
> > Since using the web list isn't an irreversible action, I think it's
> > worth it at the very least as a social experiment. Do you think you
> > could do this, if for no other reason than to prove me wrong? ;)
> >
>
> The fatal flaw in such a plan is that the damage will have already been
> done by the time a consensus is reached.

It's an experiment, we can't keep assuming things like this. We have
to know. It's a one-time issue, if we aren't able to handle a single
case of this, then we're in trouble anyway. Even if worse comes to
worse, it still a matter of just a few extra mails and attention.
We've handled worse in the past.

> I'd say that the past actions of countless other entities (open source
> as well) that have chosen to have their website developed in a closed
> environment is enough merit in its own right (Ubuntu, GNOME, and many
> more than I could probably round up and tally).

I didn't want to bring this up, but I don't really care what other
organizations have done. What I do care about is their reasoning, so
far you haven't presented any of their reasoning. And besides, it
makes little sense to compare our relatively tiny project to a huge
project like Ubuntu and gnome. If ubuntu gets 100 mails about a web
issue, we'd get 1. Coping with 100 irrelevant mails for every issue is
obviously a lot more difficult than coping with 1 irrelevant mail per
issue.

I think you are exaggerating the consequence of doing web discussions
on the dedicated web development list. This is the ADMIN list, this is
not admin related, please use the web list or petition for creation of
another closed web development list, because frankly, I don't want to
see web development stuff on the admin list. It's obviously related to
web development, not administrating the project. The admin list is a
suitable place to discuss whether or not the web list should be open
or not, what method to be used for selecting a name, or what to do if
a server turns out to be unstable. It is not a suitable place to
discuss web development. One of the most important reasons I asked for
a separate list for web was to keep the web issues away from the other
lists, ignoring an existing list because you don't agree with how it
is managed is not really a type of behavior I consider acceptable.
Then you should've voiced your opinion when the list was created, not
just ignored it. If you did and I didn't catch it, then I apologize,
it was never my intention to ignore anyone's concern.

If your comments slipped by me or if you misunderstood the intention
of the different lists, then feel free to discuss how we should use
the lists, but in the meanwhile, use the already established lists.

-- 
Regards,
Kristian